Open Coffee Athens XIV – meeting notes

Last Tuesday the 14th OpenCoffee meeting took place at the usual place in Bios. There were 4 talks and in this post I’ll put down some of the things I noticed in them – mostly stuff that never made it to the slides. The presentations themselves and videos of the talks will follow in separate posts for the more visual types of people.

First talk was by Alexis Mpallas of Cytopia.org, a website that does online music distribution for psychedelic trance (psytrance) and progressive labels. They cover an impressive (for the genre) tally of 50 labels while their site features an online radio station and brings in about 1000 euros a month in sales. One thing to take away from Alexis’ talk is that the reason they can survive in a market otherwise dominated by big players like iTunes and Amazon is the fact they aim in the niche market of their particular genre and even their website design aims to fit in with their particular audience. Their best promotion is – probably as expected – from online marketing, mainly in forums – compared to physical world efforts like fliers and promos. Main sales come from countries like the US, UK, Brasil and so on – but not Greece.

The second talk was by V.Trip‘s Dimitris Tsigkos who parted with his life’s wisdom for someone who would like to startup in Greece. Even before the business plans start a life plan is necessary – and the various alternatives one has right after finishing school are limited. A significant amount of risk-taking is required – but that’s made even worse by the fact that in essence no high-risk VC’s operate in Greece. Those that are here realise their limitations and decide not to invest in our kind of startups (early stage and high-risk). That alone but also the presence of a magnitudes’ larger market abroad means that to find success you most probably need to look outside the local markets. He made it clear that if you manage to come up with a product (and not just services!) that demonstrates the necessary volume (and as such value) for a foreign VC, they will not hesitate to invest – even on a Greek-based startup.

V. Trip’s course in particular included initially some subcontracting in public portals and then some subsidised research work. Presently, they still base their income on services and grants and subsidies while they also sell products on a global scale such as e-front, open source e-learning package, video streaming apps, etc.

The third talk was by Andreas Konstantinou by VisionMobile a small team of mobile market analysts spread all over Europe and working from home. Although the company started for the sake of teamwork it has evolved in the sales of a wide range of products including consulting, reports, market-how maps and seminars among others. Andreas underlined that a good business environment as the one offered in the UK (where good startup infrastructure, transparency and market information is available) is a plus but what’s really important is to get together a good team that share the same values and can bring knowledge, passion and innovation in the startup. An interesting approach he stressed is the need to answer 3 questions before implementing your idea:

  • What exactly is the problem you are solving?
  • Who pays to solve this problem?
  • Is there another way to solve this problem (that would make yours irrelevant)?

Finally, it was the turn of Anna Diamantopoulou, State Secretary of Development to take the stage. She also stressed how important it is for ideas and businesses to become competitive beyond the strict confines of Greece’s borders. Her main premise is that for that to happen three factors are required:

  1. an idea accompanied by an advantage
  2. a high level of technological infrastructure
  3. a helpful environment in terms of institutions

She gave a few examples from her book of how this happened both abroad and here. Perhaps the most descriptive was about how Sweden managed to turn a province known for its steel-making industry which was however decaying into the best location in the world to test cars against problems resulting from low temperatures. The cold (exploiting the idea of the low temperatures as an advantage) aided by top-notch scientific research on the matter and the relevant infrastructure managed to transform the province within 10 years with the help of everyone: the workers, the unions and the government.

Greece according to AD needs to work towards extending internet access, increasing public spending in research, improving the banking system to encourage investments and strengthening small enterprises, to increase the number of patents produced and to actually reward the best businesses to provide further incentives for growth.

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To get funded or not?

One of the most interesting debates taking place recently in the start-up scene regards -maybe somehow expectably- the arguably most critical of dilemmas an entrepreneur faces: Should I get funded or not?
In and between the frenziness of meeting and pitching to VCs, raising the biggest amount of money at the least time possible, then getting really big and acquired or just sell out to retire young, a different -less opportunistic and literally closer to reality- school of thought has lately emerged: You typically do not need any external funding to get a simple working version of your idea, you’d better bootstrap from friends and family and then try convincing some real customers to actually pay for your product and keep you going, developing ang growing, instead of selecting speculators as partners in your company.
And the story goes on, you may take a look at the arguments of Paul Graham and the 37signals guys from Chicago (disclaimer: I’m a fan of both), or watch the by now infamous speech of David Heinemeer Hansson at the start-up school 08. The various opinions and experiences may be controversial on the topic, however I believe that a contribution of value is the one of Adam from Heroku (great platform for deploying a Rails app by the way), who has interestingly tried in practice both of scenarios and converged to the following insight:

It’s hard to separate out the variables {of comparing the two approaches}, but off the cuff, I’d have to say that being investment-backed is a lot better.

Adam points out two main reasons for that, being able to focus on your product development instead of being distracted by client-work and surviving a sanity check, this time by your VC. It seems apparent that, if you are able to raise some money, you should go for it. However, and expectably, David strikes back, “trust customers over VCs, you don’t need outside bets to launch a web business”, it keeps going.

To me, the bottom line of this running debate is just simple and it goes like that:

Not being funded is not a reason not to start-up.

In other words, managed to being funded or not, in either ways, go start-up. If people who do have the tangible opportunity of raising external funding do seem skeptical about it, then you do not have to be skeptical about starting up, even in a nearly VC-agnostic environment, like the one of the local greek market. Turn your idea into a prototype, find a couple of interested customers and keep working on that, your very own road to ithaca might end up at something sustainable by itself or -who knows- some actual VC backing…

 

PS: David made lately another interesting quote, at least to some of us who feel desperate of not being in the valley:

There’s not a huge start-up culture, not a lot of tech parties all the time that you can go to, no ton of VCs just walking over to have lunch with you. I think those are all pluses, net positives, {…} you just get down to work.

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The greek and turkish internet markets: Parallel lives?

Over at The Next Web*, Sekip Can Gökalp posted a more than interesting introduction and update on the status of the turkish web scene (you may also check the recent Techcrunch* Istanbul meet-up to find out more). The term start-up is mostly a newborn baby, investors are few but there are a lot of events and passion for the web, plus a big and yet unshaped market to target at.

The scale might be slightly different (probably less different than our actual demographics), however the story seems to be the same at both sides of the Aegean and I do think that opportunity lies ahead. Yes, speaking of expansion and growth, why not start from our neighbors first (and vice versa), after all our cultural differences and everyday habits are less different than  what we’ve been taught to, plus the tools to help us are now available.

What’s more, I’d really interested in meeting in person our fellow entrepreneurs from Turkey (or our other neighbors, too; from Italy to Cyprus and the Balkans to put it very roughly), creating a strong local network of entrepreneurs and cultivating relationships for synergies to grow – among others. An initial idea is to organize a common event, somewhere in between; but what do you really think on all these actually?

 

* We mention them really often but it seems that the guys we hosted during the last year in greek Open Coffee meetings (aka The Next Web and Techcrunch UK) have really matured into the primary sources of information about the european web start-up scene — go grab their rss feeds if you haven’t yet.

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European Venture Summit 2008 – a must

Imagine being surrounded by 400+ Venture Capitalists. Yes, pitching your start-up to the biggest investors across Europe. And consider presenting there for free, while also enjoying a Venture Academy coaching the day before, plus some private meetings right after your presentation.

Well, as the Next Web guys pointed out timely, what you need to do is just fill out early the presenting company application for the European Venture Funding 2008, which takes place in Duesseldorf, during December 1 & 2. Deadline for applications extend till October 13th and the 100 best out of them will be lucky enough to enjoy the aforementioned benefits. Plus, it’s not only ICT; the call also mentions biotech and new energy. Won’t you take your chances?

P.S.: On a side note, applications for the more focused Seedcamp end on August 10th, that is on Sunday!

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Open Coffee Club International: A wrap-up plus a call for your idea

The initiator and guru of Open Coffee Club International, Saul Klein, sent us recently an email, tracking some of the Open Coffee Club advances for the season that ends:

Wow. There are now over 80 of you all round the world (see www.opencoffeeclub.org) – its pretty amazing how its spread over the last year and we have new locations starting every month. (note: and you have yet to add Thessaloniki, Patras and Ioannina, three more cities that hosted an Open Coffee meeting in Greece; plus do expect more for the season to come.)

{…}

Some great stuff going on by the way, just to highlight a few locations:

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For those of you who’ve been hosting an OCC for sometime, you know that we’ve mentioned on a few occasions that it would be cool to have better communication between groups to better share contacts, learnings and just generally leverage the fact that we are now truly global to take the pulse of the startup community better worldwide, {…} or add some value to our Ning network presence at www.opencoffeeclub.org.

It’s true that we do feel really flattered and proud for being the first to mention across the truly global Open Coffee community. And this equally stands as a charge and promise to perform even better, starting again from September. However, the reason for this post was different.

Given that we all share the potential of our active global community, the question is clear and directed to you dear fellow readers and Open Coffee attendees: Submit your very own ideas for enabling a much more efficient collaboration and sharing (of experiences, ideas, networks, etc) among the international Open Coffee communities. We’re looking for ideas that are comprehensive but feasible, maybe viral, too, finally offering a chance to leave a tangible footprint to our Club. And, who knows, maybe in a year form now, you’ll be the one to receive credits from around the globe…

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